Prop 8 Is Passing And I'm Listening
How Gay and Lesbian Couples Should React
"I will listen to you, especially when we disagree." This is the line that stuck out most to me Tuesday night, listening to Obama's victory speech. And I wonder what it means for us struggling with the implications that California Prop 8 won-for the first time in American history, a constitution will be amended to take rights away from a group of people. What does it mean that a (simple) majority of California voters voted for it? Why?
Right now, my wife (will she be my legal spouse now that Prop 8 has passed?) is huddled under the covers. "I need time to wallow" she told me.
Yesterday, she stood for eight hours in front of a school serving as a polling place in Menlo Park, CA, a single volunteer holding a "vote no on Prop 8" sign. School security called the police and tried to get her to leave the premises, despite the fact she was maintaining the 100-feet distance required by law. She called No-On-Prop-8 lawyers, who had to negotiate with principals and the superintendent across the county to clarify that she indeed had the right to be there. She is tired and sad.
Proposition 8 Passed
It has disturbed me to see my fellow liberals, progressives, and leftists engage in the same aggressive, rigid process, the same means as our opponents on Proposition 8: "Those people who voted for Prop 8 must be ignorant, intolerant, stupid, bigoted, conservative." Yes, we are an angry and hurt people right now. And when you're angry and hurt, it's hard to keep your heart open. We all need to huddle under the covers for a little while and recover.
But by so simply discounting those who voted for Prop 8, are we not engaging in the type of rigid, close-minded thinking we so often criticize? Are we not doing what the Bush administration has done over the past eight years, disregarding dissent and disagreement, failing to listen to opinion that may be radically opposed to our own?
Where is our curiosity about why people would vote for it, what is going on in their lives that would guide them to vote for it? By lacking curiosity and openness, by quickly disregarding the thousands of Californians who voted for Prop 8, are we liberals and progressives not just as fundamentalist as those to whom we usually apply that label?
Gays and Lesbians Need to Forgive
As I engage in theological study, I have come to the conclusion that one of the main things that distinguishes liberal from conservative is the belief that difference needs to be engaged and listened to-that different people, different traditions should engage; that what comes out of these conversations is not only important, but also may indeed be sacred truth. Liberals believe difference is important, that truth emerges from engaging the many; conservatives believe that truth comes from their own interpretations, that truth emerges from their similarity.
So when I listen to those who disagreed with me on Prop 8, this is what I hear: I hear fear and anxiety about sex and sexuality. I hear parents struggling to make sense of a world where sex is used to sell almost everything. I hear people afraid of something they are not personally familiar with. And yes, I hear a lot of straight-out bigotry too.
But maybe if we, the liberals and progressives, take seriously and engage with this fear and anxiety, we could win the hearts of those 400,000 voters whose "yes" votes on prop 8 are poised to take away the civil rights of us gays, lesbians, and queers.
"I will listen to you, especially when we disagree."
Amen, President Obama. Amen.
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Comments
Darcy, your article is the first one I have seen asking these questions. I see a lot of anger over this vote—and I acknowledge that this anger is understandable. I appreciate that you've taken this step back to consider the other side.
I'm a religious conservative and I voted yes on prop 8. I also volunteered dozens of hours calling people to get out the vote. What is going on in my life that guided me to do that?
We got a taste of what you and the gay rights movement have lived under for years—that our way of life was under attack. Just as it is natural for you to want to fight for your way of life, I was filled with the desire to fight for mine. I also felt I was on a divine mission.
You wrote, "conservatives believe that truth comes from their own interpretations." I wouldn't say that. I would say that religious conservatives believe that truth is absolute and comes from God. I acknowledge that not everyone agrees what that truth is, but that doesn't mean I'll throw my belief away.
In the weeks leading up to this campaign, I have been flipped off, cursed at, and called a bigot, an idiot, backward, closed-minded, and told to "g fck ff nd d" (vowels removed in the original for some reason). I've been told I'm filled with hate, which is confusing to me because "hate" is not an emotion I've been feeling at all. On the contrary, I've felt hate directed at me in the name of tolerance and acceptance.
I've read so many news stories of people getting successfully sued for exercising their first amendment rights to religious freedom that I don't know what this country is coming to. It seemed clear to me that anyone who wanted to raise their children believing that heterosexuality and homosexuality are not equivalent was under attack. It felt like a small but vocal minority was taking over the country and demanding that their worldview be impressed upon everyone at all levels of society, starting in kindergarten. I felt that a group with no distinguising characteristics other than self-identification as belonging to that group was exercising undue power over the rest of the country and especially the state. And I felt that the English language was being twisted to suit their needs; they were demanding equal rights when they already had the exact same right as everyone else: The right to marry someone of the opposite sex who agreed to marry you, was not too closely related to you, was not too young, and was not currently married to someone else. I felt that the Supreme Court reducing the definition of the word "marriage" to delete the most essential part of the word was unconstitutional, unjust, and in defiance of natural law and the intent of the framers of the constitution.
I would go into more detail, but my time is limited. I doubt what I've said will give you a high opinion of me, but you did ask. I know you just want to live your life and gain public acceptance of that life. I have no problem with you living your life. I have no problem with the rights granted under the domestic partnership laws. But while I can tolerate, I cannot in good conscience approve. You may say it's none of my business, but as a member of society it is my business to do what I can to keep society from going down the crapper. You don't think your desire for public approval will lead society down the crapper. I understand that, and I respect your wishes. But that respect cannot lead me to ignore a principle so core to my belief system that denying it would be to deny my existence as a human being and to deny my place in the universe.
—Peter
Peter,
I am speaking as a person with a parent who has married the same sex, not as an employee of this website.
You said, "I felt that a group with no distinguishing characteristics other than self-identification as belonging to that group was exercising undue power over the rest of the country and especially the state..."
With all due respect, they are only fighting for their personal power to be fully human. The state, the country and the world have been denying them this right and exerting their power for the history of humankind. I have so many issues with the things you said I don't even know where to begin.
The tides of change are coming. Your vote may have helped pass Proposition 8 this time, but it's just a matter of time before civil liberties for all arrive. It's insulting that you tell gay people you can "tolerate" them, like you're talking to head lice. What makes you think people don't have to "tolerate" you?
Proposition 8 is moving backwards, and while the current is strong in your direction, the flood of human rights is well on its way, so get ready to tolerate having to confront what I do believe are bigoted views.
All that said, I think it's good that you and the author of this article are having a dialogue and you have been respectful in how you expressed your disagreement.
Heather
Peter,
Thank you so much for your thoughts. Respectful dialogue between folks who think and believe differently does not happen enough.
Fear often brings out the worst in humans and often can lead us to act violently and harmfully to other humans. I think a lot of fear is at the root of the Prop 8 debate, on both sides.
A lot of my thinking comes from my study of non-violent movements and as well as my study of Christianity, spirituality, and the Bible. My original words were really a type of prayer for peace, calling on progressives not to engage in the toxicity of hate. In fact, I am calling on them to follow the teachings of Jesus.
The framers of the constitution wanted to create a country where difference could coexist peacefully, where religious freedom and freedom of speech are central to how we govern our country. I don't want a country that will persecute you for your belief. I don't want a country that will persecute anybody, including me and my wife.
I do not feel written dialogue is or every will be enough. Peter, I want you to see me as a full human being, created in the image of God. I want you to see my partner (who was raised conservative Christian) crying, huddled under the covers. I want you to see the pain and hurt your vote has cause so many of my friends and family.
And after you spend some time among my sobbing and grieving family, I would like to sit down and talk about Matthew 7 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you...So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
or
Matthew 22:37-- Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
or
Apostles 13:8 "Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
"Love does no harm to a neighbor." I am sorry that my fellow progressives caused you harm with their angry and bitter words. We are neighbors and we have both been hurting each other in different and similar ways.
And, I am your neighbor Peter, and right now, your vote is hurting me.
You said "I respect your wishes. But that respect cannot lead me to ignore a principle so core to my belief system that denying it would be to deny my existence as a human being and to deny my place in the universe." I hope you are never coerced to violate your principles, I hope your inherent worth and dignity as a child of God is never demeaned. May compassion, love, and mercy fill your heart. May we both stay in that space of respect as we disagree. And May we both continue on our paths, pursuing love, justice, and truth.
Blessings on you and your loved ones.
It's strange to me that in America Christians would invoke the Bible and God in an attempt to deny harmless activity, while remaining silent about the open use of torture, kidnappings, imprisonment without trial, illegal invasions and acts of war, and threats against other nations. Strange indeed.
Hell yeah! Good point John.
Indeed, there are many ironies about how people invoke tradition, scripture and their faith. I just want to remind people that it's not "American Christians" who we are finding fault with in how they invoke their faith--it's fundamentalist and conservative Christians.
Let us not forget that most of the most successful progressive social movement leaders have invoked faith, if not based, their leadership on the liberal and liberatory strands of faith traditions (i.e. Gandhi, Rev. Dr. MLK, and Cesar Chavez). There were many liberal Christian congregations involved with the fight against Prop 8. No group, black, white, Christian, Muslim, etc is homogenous, even though we often suggest it with our language. It wasn't "Muslims" who organized the attack on 9/11--it was a small group of fundamentalist/conservative Muslims. Bigotry is perpetuated when we fail to recognize the complexity of identity, faith, and culture. While conservative Christians have been in the press most predominantly for a long time (as have fundamentalist Muslims), do not take the media's disproportionate coverage to indicate a lack of existence of radically progressive and anti-oppressive Christians, Muslims and Jews.
in love,
darcy
Here's some more food for thought: Some thinkers, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, believe that Islam is, by nature, fundamentalist, and she, who was Muslim herself, says there is no distinction. Her views, of course, are so radical she has to live with armed guards, but she made some really fascinating arguments.
Indeed, more food for thought! Ayaan Hirsi Ali is such a complex character. I don't know nearly enough about her work (or Islam for that matter), although I will admit that her current affiliation with the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute makes me more skeptical about her positions...Again, I find myself faced with the challenge of remaining curious and open even to those with whom I disagree... My partner read her book and says it was really fascinating. Thanks Heather!
Something that has become evident about America in this recent election is we approach issues as a matter of winning. We do not approach the issues with the perspective of solving the problems whatever they may be, rather we approach them with "My view is correct," and everything that follows is how can my "correct" view win. We sacrifice the idea of the populace for victory. Society is not a football game, nor is it a game of chess. We have sacrificed the rights of individuals based on ignorance and "blind faith," rather than understanding who we are as people. It is fantastic Barack Obama is president in terms of what it means for the African-American population in this country, but we have allowed another minority in this country to take their place. In order to "win" in the battle of the "correct" way to solve the issues we evoke religion as an argument. We point to the bible and use rhetoric that points to traditions established in ancient societies. We use religion, manipulate religion for our personal means, but we ignore the basic message of all the major religions: love yourself, love others, and love god, allah, yahweh, nature....It is 2008, and we trick ourselves into believing we have evolved. We look at ourselves and think we are better than our past, but we are no different. Things have not changed, because we continue to discriminate against a group that is different. We do not embrace difference, but shun it and persecute it. It is a crying shame it is 2008 going onto 2009 and we have allowed ourselves to be stagnant.
Heather,
I think that what Peter is truly afraid of is the section of the gay marriage law that requires, upon passing, all straight Christians to divorce their current partners and take up with someone of the same sex. He is, after all, defending his lifestyle as a straight man by working against the rights of others. It's what straight men have done for years, and if it doesn't continue we may all end up in a world without straight men. This would mean that there would be no one around to impregnate women and, ultimately, would lead to the demise of the human race. I mean, look at how gay marriage has already effected us. I saw one of my best friends kiss a guy for the first time since gay marriage was legal in California this summer. He was gay before hand, but that is not the point, the point is that now he could feasibly, if Prop 8 is shut down in the courts, profess his thorough and undying love to this man in the eyes of his state!
Think of it, a whole world of straight men being forced to live like my friend, kissing and loving people. Who would fight in Iraq? Who would build cars and bombs? Who would go to concerts by such classics as Poison and Whitesnake?
In this world of ever-growing moral obscurity, the last thing we need is more love.
Take that, John Lennon.
Best,
Todd
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