Scorpio
There they were with their signs in English and even some in a foreign language crossing the busy intersections at every red light screaming at passers-by to "END THE WAR! "
Have they not realized yet that the only person that can truly end this is the President? Clearly he has some information that we citizens aren’t privileged to, to keep us in Iraq!
It is okay to be against the war in your own personal opinion, but by protesting its existence you are causing a negative vibe in Americans, encouraging them to second-guess our leader's decisions.
We have men and women, mothers, sons, husbands, grandchildren out there on foreign soil risking their lives so that you can protest their “job.”
It isn’t just the war either. There was a huge abortion protest march last week! WHAT THE HELL?! The only people you will affect with your signs are those that have already done it and now feel like crap because of your signs or those that are on their way to do it no matter what your signs say!
Did you hear about the “protesters” that busted into a church this Easter Sunday to make a “bloody point”?
I remember a couple of years ago a large group of us marched in the Veteran’s Day parade, and can you believe there were people yelling at us and throwing things? There was even one guy riding his bike in and out of the parade to try and get us off track.
I don’t understand protesting; what does it solve? Maybe it is your way of venting…good for you; don’t bottle it up…but protesting?
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Re: Protest This!
By Bud Oracle (not verified), May 20, 2008 at 06:12Michelle Manhart,
“wannabe Americans protest the WAR!”
So you think that all you have to do is to paint some one with your judgment, and then they own that handle? Are you another loud mouthed Christian/Patriot, painting everyone with your judgment, thinking that is all it takes to make a point? Not in the real world, loudmouth, only in the fairytale land of funda "mentalism" does that work!
“Have they not realized yet that the only person that can truly end this is the President? Clearly he has some information that we citizens aren’t privileged to, to keep us in Iraq!”
Clearly, your deduction doesn’t follow the reasoning. There are many other reasons why your Main Moron President is continuing the war. A primary one is because people devoid of the capability to reason like you, support him without question and harass those who can think. Just because you are too limited in your capacity to understand the many reasons, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist.
“It is okay to be against the war in your own personal opinion, but by protesting its existence you are causing a negative vibe in Americans, encouraging them to second-guess our leader's decisions.”
Only someone who doesn’t understand the first principals of a Democracy would say words so bereft of intelligence. Someone like the idiot President in charge will rant idiocy and believe that explains something.
“We have men and women, mothers, sons, husbands, grandchildren out there on foreign soil risking their lives so that you can protest their “job.””
So what was their "job" again? WOMD’s, bringing democracy and torture? Since your country invaded a country which did not in any way threaten you, on the pretext of lies, killing 100's of thousands of civilians against the ruling of the United nations security council, technically your sons are committing war crimes. At the same time your Main Idiot is bankrupting your nation. Many people who can’t put a clearly reasoned point together, don’t understand that you haven’t got A LEGAL REASON FOR BEING IN IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE.
“I remember a couple of years ago a large group of us marched in the Veteran’s Day parade, and can you believe there were people yelling at us and throwing things? There was even one guy riding his bike in and out of the parade to try and get us off track.”
How dare anyone protest your protest? No wonder the Chinese own you, with the caliber of thinking that comes forth from the likes of you. There seems to be a decline in the intelligence of your country and you seem in the vanguard of that downward movement. http://www.orato.com/health-science/2008/04/24/do-humans-have-political-...
When I hear people like you putting forth their fantasies as reasoned arguments, I understand why your country is in rapid decline. It is people like you who have made America's homeless bed.
Re: Protest This!
By Brandon, March 25, 2008 at 14:15Protests are more important than any other form of human action. This article and any comment which defends an end to protest is totalitarian and errant. it is a rebel yell against a government that works FOR us. It is OUR instrument. And we can RIOT, raze burn and destroy it at our discretion. Let me list but three "protests" in our past.
1. The Boston Tea Party
2. The Million Man March
3. Women's Suffrage March on Washington
Protesting is what the people, the demos does when it feels strongly. If the people are continuously silenced then riot ensues, eventually rebellion and lastly REVOLUTION. When a government refuses to listen to its people these things happen. For a government to ignore people time after time is to fraternize with the seeds of revolution.
There have been many books written on assembly and the law both at Common law and statutorily varies from democracy to democracy on the subject of protest - indeed freedom of expression/ speech and speech-act distinctions make it a hazy area for even the most clever of philosophers. But protests are not meant to be a part of the constitutional framework, they are meant to be outside normality as an expression of extreme anger by the body politic.
Politics and law are set down but they are mere expressions of a system of interaction. They form in nexus a social contract between citizens. The government is a construct created by relationships to facilitate co-operation and co-ordination of social activity. It is not its own agent. However institutions upon creation only ever seek power and self-preservation - including presidential administrations and regimes. Because of this the American founding fathers instituted a political system which checks the natural self-interest of governments.
Jefferson wrote clearly that there was NO WAY to stop governments from becoming too powerful within any system. Once created a system will bend and evolve to facilitate those in power. Ergo he calls for revolution to be a standard of American life every twnety or so years. In order to preserve freedom forever: The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of revolution.
Now you want to stiffle even simple protesting? How wonderful for the government that the people over which it rules be silent and complicit. Historical note: first, the Nazis banned protests.
Re: Protest This!
By Melkor, March 25, 2008 at 15:01Let’s be clear:
The war in Iraq was THE central theme of the last elections, both executive and legislative. Bush won on his war record (as unbelievable as that might be); the Dems took back the legislative branches for the same reason. This is peaceful protest in action. The fact that the Democrats are a bunch of air-blowing-do- nothing- wind -bags doesn’t change the fact that the American people have a peaceful, unobtrusive mechanism for resolving such disputes.
It is fair to say I think that the House and Senate have sat by with a new mandate to get out of the war and have an easy way to do it – stop signing the cheques. They won’t (or have not as yet) do this. Why? Pragmatism. Because if they did, they calculate they would lose the majority. Interesting – so who do we listen to, the protesters (who apparently have no job to worry about losing) or the American voters (tax payers)? In the system you defend, the answer is obvious. Participation outside the system is secondary to a citizen’s right (and duty quite frankly) to participate directly.
And who is saying protest should be outlawed? I have not read that in these discussions, but I have discerned some citizens expressing their own rights of self expression. And it seems like you would defend their right to do so. And as King and Plato both rightly point out, protest against the state is fine, but accepting the states sanctions for such actions must be diligently and obediently followed. See Plato’s Crito for the real goods.
And further, government in the Aristotelian universe is not mere construct. It is the natural evolution of human activity – for someone who likes to use the Philosopher as an expert, you certainly dismiss this part of his lectures outright.
Also, I love it when people mention the founding fathers as some sort of bastion of righteousness. A bunch of murdering slave traders don’t deserve the credit they get (except for Franklin – that guy was some sort of thinker). And while the Constitution and Declaration of Independence are fabulous pieces of literature, read the Federalist Papers the next time you’re having trouble sleeping. And the Boston Tea Party seems to be a very bad example of public disobedience in this context of protest inside a democracy.
Re: Protest This!
By grandmaandmom, March 24, 2008 at 16:36Protesting:definition of: to express or record dissent or objection; another incident depending on age. When we were small and young, if we were to protest against our parent's decision, thru say with actions ( a tantrum) or words, chances are we were punished. But, now of course, we're adults, and to protest is o.k. Again I stand confused. Our lifes are becoming nothing but double standards. I feel it's lack of respect. We the people elected a man and gave him the highest position of President, to agree or disagree is a choice we have but to go out in public and throw a royal tantrum is un-called for. We are all individuals and have all made good and bad decisions,but all of us have the right to do just that, I certainly wouldn't want every one in town to go out and publicly declare that fact. And as far as abortion goes, that should be no ones business except the individual and the doctor. Period!!!! I will say, Michelle you had a great idea about those protesters using their energy to do something really productive . But, to boast about it would take the goodness away. So weather you take a picture of your package or not get busy, get them packed off, and count your blessings. Hang in there girl I'm 100% behind you, still very proud of the work you're doing.
Re: Protest This!
By luyen, March 25, 2008 at 08:49First off ;-) I don't think you can refer to a dictionary's definition of a protest, that is not a governing body of what the right of assembly is all about, although it could be a part of it, it's also not accurate to say that all protests are "tantrums", although some do end that way.
What is a protest and what is a march for peace ? It depends who you ask, from the government's side they might call it a protest, and a lot of protests can do a lot of good. Like the million man march for racial equality, what about the boston tea party? Without it that symbolic gesture, how would things have turned out?
As individuals we have opinions, but as groups of individuals we have power to make positive change, to assume that the government looks out for us, is as wise as giving your neighbor all of your money, we as citizens are the very basis of the checks and balances.
Large scale events *can*, not always, but can produce changes in social consciousness, it gets the word out to people who might otherwise never even think about it, but I'm 100% in accord that it must be done in a positive and constructive way, and that we should check carefully whether we dislike it because we disagree with the right to do so, the issue itself, or our own personal comfort (not saying that it applies to anybody here, just generally).
I think about a documentary i saw recently about Iran, and how the younger people (70% of Iran is aged 30 and less), are disenchanted with the government's policies, they have done marches and protests, written songs, but very very few turned out to vote. I strongly feel that if you dis empower a march or a protest, you also dis empower the democratic process, because then people feel why bother...
Re: The Naked Reporter: Protest This!
By luyen, March 24, 2008 at 14:28Protests whether truly effective or not, is one of the few democratic tools we have at our disposal when it comes to mobilizing people to effect some result. The next best thing is democratic elections, but let's face it, that hasn't worked particularly well if you're not a Bush supporter.
I don't think this is a 'us vs them' kind of position, if you're not in the military and don't support the war outright, what chance do you have if you disagree? It would be an affront to the ideals of the liberty to just say we support the government right or wrong - that would be a failure of our duties as conscientious citizens and human beings.
It's difficult to create democratic change without having to resort to the use of force, protests entail the communication of information amongst thousands and thousands of people, accurate or not, I think it's a good way for people to get involved in the founding principles of liberty freedom, and that is the right to disagree.
I think you'll agree, that in some small measure, that is more important than anybody's travel plans.
p.s. i've thoroughly enjoyed all the stories you've written so far, keep it up!
Re: The Naked Reporter: Protest This!
By Melkor, March 25, 2008 at 12:11Actually, any democracy has a ready-made protocol in place to ensure the people’s voices are heard – this is called an election. Bush ran on this war last time around, and the American people were heard on this subject. Unless you do in fact concede that the majority voice of the US are in fact a bunch of children incapable of making a reasoned decision, there is no need to protest per say, rather, they should campaign for the man (or in my case woman) they feel will get them out of this war. This last though is rather comical of course, because Americans still love their cars (and always will), and are not going anywhere – regardless of which party takes power (will be the Republicans, again). After all, they broke it, they bought it (I think Powell said that).