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Hearing From Bin Laden? Nah

Osama bin Laden.


We had better start electing politicians with character and stop being mesmerized by the bickering between political parties or our country will stay lost in this moral desert we’re in. '
By Citizen Correspondent W Randolph
Date Posted: 10/10/08
Reader Rating: rating

I wonder if and when we’ll hear from Osama bin Laden? I wonder how happy he is about the economic meltdown in the U.S and the World?

You know, we’re heading in the direction his battle plan called for. In 2001 bin Laden said, “I say it is very important to focus on attacking the American economy by any means available.” It would seem that we, ourselves, and our greed, are all the "means" he needs.

I wonder how this year will be remembered when it goes into the history books? Will it be remembered as the year that Bear Sterns, Fannie and Freddie, Lehman Bros, Merrill Lynch, AIG and who knows who else went under? Will this year be remembered as the year the Russian Bear came out of hibernation? Will this year be remembered as the year gas first hit $4.00 a gallon? These are all grim epitaphs to put on 2008’s headstone.

I hope 2008 will be remembered for another reason. I hope this year is remembered as the year the United States discovered her new vision. Greed and corruption are at the heart of all the problems we’re facing. Greed is the disease that infects our corporate leaders. Corruption has wed corporations with our government.

It really doesn’t matter what political party is in power. Both parties are in bed with corporations and brand the other party for all our woes. The system has broken down. Maybe in 2008, we will all wake up and see that we’d better stop thinking only of ourselves and start thinking as a nation. During our short stint as world superpower, we forgot that.

We had better start electing politicians with character and stop being mesmerized by the bickering between political parties or our country will stay lost in this moral desert we’re in. The choice we all have as the next presidential election draws closer is between charisma and character.


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Re: Hearing From Bin Laden? Nah

By johnhatch, October 17, 2008 at 14:31

Mr. Randolph,
You're welcome for the chuckle.

I wish I could say the same. I find it sad that so many Americans have no difficulty with extraordinary rendition, with torture (according to ex-White House lawyer John Yoo, the President has the right to crush the testicles of a child in front of his parents- have you really come to this?) America has imprisoned children as young as eight. It is responsible for the murder of perhaps a million Iraqis (sometimes for sport) and displacement of four or so million others, all based on deception and lies and the willingness of the American people to believe whatever they're told. So much for the 'home of the brave'.

No one seems to give a damn. It's 'what you do'...

Americans support savage warlords in Afghanistan, bomb and otherwise kill civilians in the thousands, tolerate the highest rate of poppy growth in history (and the ensuing importation of heroin into America), admire politicians that joke 'Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran', first-strike nuclear policies, and the pre-emptive weaponization of space. Americans tolerate the abolition of habeas corpus, the use of military force on American soil, the establishment of domestic concentration camps and (soon) the use of thermal and other weapons against assembly and free speech, pre-emptive police raids on peaceful protesters. And on and on.

Some years ago, a group of influential Americans, including Dick Cheney, organized PNAC for the specific purpose of establishing 'Full Spectrum Dominance'- taking over the world. PNAC hoped for a 'new Pearl Harbor event' to 'catylize' the people into accepting the plan.

Then along came 9/11, but we're asked to believe it's a coincidence. As if the Bush administration, the most downright evil in a history which is rife with it since the original Native genocide, would never stoop to such a thing, despite precedents. Despite the overwhelming evidence. Oh, those 'conspiricy nuts'! As if 9/11 were not the very definition of a conspiracy. It's just a matter of who's involved.

As we're seeing once again, Americans have an astonishing capacity to embrace myth and self-delusion and to ignore painful or inconvenient truths, even when it means going against their own self-interests. But you can't do that forever. The economy is a case in point. Your democracy is another. The latter is dead not with a bang or a whimper, but a 'Duh!'

You fought for nothing, Mr. Randolph. It's all gone.

Re: Hearing From Bin Laden? Nah

By W Randolph, October 17, 2008 at 15:26

Dear Mr. Hatch,

At the risk of inviting people to think that since we keep meeting under my post, we must be dating, I have the following thoughts to add to this interesting conversation.

It must pain you to no end that Canadian forces remain right there in Afghanistan with U.S. and NATO forces committing the same atrocities you feel your American brothers subscribe to. And this despite your country's public opposition to your involvement in Afghanistan. Gnaws on your soul does it?

Do you feel the same anger towards the Canadian government? Do you express it? Where might I see those scathing tirades?

Can you tell me what government you currently admire and why?

You'll get no argument from me on Cheney. Blast away. My critiques of him are elsewhere, more damning and based on fact. Actually, you'd get no argument from me on a host of issues that are an embarrassment to my government and our floundering leadership in the world.

I, unlike you, do think people give a damn here and in Canada and around the world. There are differing opinions, but they do care. However, extremist, and radical rhetoric is not a likely way to promote, or educate people to your position, unless one only seeks a senseless mob following.

Mr. Hatch, it appears that you "fight" in your own way. When your days are done, I think you, and your God, if you choose to believe in one, are the only ones that will determine whether you fought for something. You do not know me Mr. Hatch. You do not know what I fought for, why I did it or what I expected to gain. To assume that you do, or that your judgment of my life and its purpose actually matters says more to me about you than your angry tirades ever will.

God save the Queen.

Re: Hearing From Bin Laden? Nah

By johnhatch, October 17, 2008 at 12:02

Mr. Randolph,
Facts are indeed stubborn things. If you review my comments, you'll see that I never said that Bin Laden had no ties to Al Queida. I said that the FBI admitted it had no evidence that he was behind 9/11. He is on their 'most wanted' list, but on it there is no mention of 9/11. Please check for yourself. It is a matter of record.

That he was a CIA asset (as was the Muhajadeen) is not even in dispute. There is evidence he received treatment in a US military friendly hospital in Bahrain in 2000, and had visits from CIA operatives. There are Osama tapes that are comically fake.

I didn't say that planes didn't collide with the twin towers (although a missile, not a plane clearly attacked the Pentagon). The twin towers were designed to withstand multiple strikes from fully loaded 707s (the largest commercial plane at the time). The metaphor was a pencil piercing a screen door. There is local damage, but the structure maintains its overall integrity.

In order for the 'pancake' theory to hold true, one would have to suspend the laws of physics. The buildings came down at almost freefall speed, and Building Seven fell at slightly faster than freefall (because explosions in the basement caused a temporary partial vaccuum). The resistance of each succeeding floor in the 'pancake' theory would have resulted in a much slower collapse. Messier, too, but no pulverization. There's just no way around that. Or the molten metal, still yellow hot after months. Nothing can accomplish temperatures like that except explosives such as Thermate. You can see the squibs for yourself. And the long horizontal trajectories of tons of metal, not explainable in any other way. Or the pyroclastic dust clouds which occur only in volcanoes and controlled demolitions using high temperature explosives.

It matters not at all from what altitude bombs were dropped on Vietnamese civilians. The fact is, crimes against humanity were committed on a massive scale, as they continue to be in Afghanistan and Iraq (and maybe soon Iran). Your 'man of character' supports torture, indefinite imprisonment without trial, disappearences, and pre-emptive war. I recall others of such 'character', but not with any admiration.

Thanks for fighting for my freedom of speech. I bet you'd never have guessed that its erosion and near disappearance would come not from the Nazis or Communists, not from the 'terrorists' (everyone who doesn't cheer for Bush), but from your own United States. Looks like you wasted your time. Sorry.

Re: Hearing From Bin Laden? Nah

By W Randolph, October 17, 2008 at 12:45

Dear Mr. Hatch,

Please give me a link to an FBI website or a representative of the FBI being interviewed that states officially that the FBI has no information linking Bin Laden to 9/11. I searched the web based on your assertion and only came up with conspiracy theorist crackpots that assume that since 9/11 is not listed under bin laden in the FBI's top 10 list, that there is no official connection. There's a basic logic flaw in this type of assertion.

Today, I work in the wedge of the Pentagon next to the wedge that was hit on 9/11 - about 50 meters from the impact site. On that day I was at Ft. Hood TX. still in the Army, so I did not personally see the plane or its aftermath. However, many of my present coworkers were there, saw the debris, including the plane engines that penetrated deepest through the first few of the Pentagon rings. I've seen footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon taken by security cameras. I'm comfortable trusting people I know and work with more than a self admitted USA hater.

There are plenty of conspiracies and abuses of power about the US that I imagine we could agree on. 9/11 as a US conspiracy is not going to be one of them.

I don't think I wasted my time at all - you appear to be able to say whatever you like. It has been my true honor and entertainment to read the thoughts you've written down. You've given me a chuckle.

Re: Hearing From Bin Laden? Nah

By johnhatch, October 20, 2008 at 12:19

Mr. Randolph,

http://www.twf.org/News/Y2006/0608-BinLaden.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060610...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR200608...

http://www.infowars.net/articles/february2007/190207Osama_tape.htm

http://www.infowars.net/articles/february2007/190207Osama_tape.htm

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osamatape.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060917...

http://www.milligazette.com/dailyupdate/2006/20060612_bin_laden_911_fbi....

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060611155014535

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/bin_laden_fbi_let_charter_flight...

http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/CheneyKnew.htm

http://911review.org/Media/Bin-Laden-Not-Wanted-for_9_11.html

http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-fbi-cant-link-bin-laden-to-911-why-is-this...

http://www.illuminati-news.com/061206a.htm

http://dc911truth.org/flyers/3Supp911.pdf

http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2008/04/fbi-no-hard-evidence-l...

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6976

More? I know you'll dismiss these links as 'conspiracy nut' URLs, but don't you think if the FBI had evidence to link Bin Laden to the greatest crime committed on American soil they would say so? They admit to the opposite. It's a matter of public record.

Reality deniers rant on about crazy conspiracies (as if 9/11 weren't that by any standard), then completely ignore mountains of evidence, including Newton's laws of motion. Apparently Bin Laden can walk on water. But no loaves and fishes, unfortunately.

It's an astonishing fact that many Americans think they can just shop for the most convenient 'truth' at the intellectual equivalent of Wal Mart. No wonder America has visited such devastating harm on itself and the world. Whether it's Wall Street or Main Street or My Street, it's insanity. It has to end. It will. The financial rape is perhaps the last straw. And by the way, my verbal, non-violent 'rants' are nothing at all compared to the massive violence committed in all your names. And you go along with it. Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran. What a joke by Mr. McCain! A lot of Americans don't even know that you already screwed Iran in 1953 (over oil), installed the torturing and murdering Shah and now they want to do it all over again. Unbelievable!

God Save the Queen? I think the issue is your evil lizard Boy King and all you 'good Germans' who are so good at closing your eyes and praying for Bush III. Really.

Re: Hearing From Bin Laden? Nah

By W Randolph, October 20, 2008 at 17:17

John,

I couldn't open all the links that end in "...".

You're right, I dismiss the others I could open as conspiracy nut sites. I'd like to have seen what the Washington Post had to say even if they're lefty's. Send the complete link if you get a chance. I understand how you and they come to the conclusion you want. The FBI hasn't charged bin Laden, so he committed no 9/11 crime. Ok if it makes you feel good have at it.

You did get me looking around and I came upon the following:

Statement for the Record of Robert S. Mueller, III Director Federal Bureau of Investigation on the War on Terrorism Before the Select Committee on Intelligence of the United States Senate Washington, D.C. Feb 11 2003

"...The al-Qaeda terrorist network headed by Usama Bin Laden is clearly the most urgent threat to US interests. The evidence linking al-Qaeda to the attacks of September 11 is clear and irrefutable..."

You can go to the link at http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/021103mueller.html for the director's complete statement.

Agree with you on U.S. involvement in Iran in '53 so I guess I'm not "most Americans." 'Twas a bad thing. Not our first and certainly not our last.

Agree that your verbal non-violent rants are nothing compared to the violence committed by the U.S. As far as I can tell, you're harmless.

I'm not German. I didn't know left wingers didn't like Deutchland. Then again, maybe it's a historical reference ;-)

I didn't hear back from you about Canada's current involvement in Afghanistan and how you feel about your country being right there with the U.S. Also didn't hear back from you on the government you most admire now and why.

Always a pleasure - Randolph

BTW took a look at some of your flicks. They're cute. Best of luck on your upcoming projects!

Re: Hearing From bin Laden? Nah

By pungostrawberry, October 13, 2008 at 06:07

You are so smart. This sums up my thoughts exactly. We have all come to rely on the government for too much, giving it the power to dictate too much of our lives. We have become like children, trading our independence for sustinence and shelter. Please don't mistake my meaning. I am not saying that every person has become dependent on the government, but we are all collectively responsible for allowing our government to become so intertwined with our lives.

My mom has a saying - "Never trust the man who comes to your door saying, "I'm here from the government and I'm here to help you." Somewhere along the line we lost sight of the fact that nothing comes for free and nothing worth anything comes easy. For quite some time, our politicians have managed to convince us that they have our best interests at heart and they want to do what is right. But, as you have mentioned in previous articles, it takes so much money to run a campaign these days that the politicians are either way more wealthy than the average person they will represent or already corrupted before they are elected to office. THEY have not lost sight of the fact that nothing is free. They know exactly what is expected for the large donations that are given to get them elected. Heck, the corporations nowadays even hedge their bets by giving to BOTH candidates in a race. These people have no idea what life is like for the rest of us. They have completely lost touch with life as the rest of us know it.

Your reference to Osama is right on the money too. It is completely naive to believe that he and others like him are not closely watching this race. I hope the candidate elected is one to give them pause.

Excellent read.

Re: Hearing From bin Laden? Nah

By SmartCookie, October 14, 2008 at 06:33

pungostrawberry,

Well, I think you are so smart! I agree with your characterizations of corruption in both parties, of government interference in our lives, and I agree with you that this article is an excellent read. I also agree with the article's assessment of bin Laden's silence. No matter which candidate wins this election, we will still be under threat from our enemies. That's a difficult thing for me to ignore.

We all just have to do our best. I hope that more of us will come through this process with a better sense of the importance of individual responsibility so that we can work together to overcome our problems, which certainly include corruption in our government, as you point out.

And I love your mom's saying!

Re: Hearing From bin Laden? Nah

By SmartCookie, October 12, 2008 at 07:03

Thank you for this article. You're right to point out that our own greed is the only weapon many of our enemies need against us. I think it's also our own apathy and instinctive willingness to prefer to blame someone else for our problems. Unfortunately, our enemies will hate us no matter what we do ... so we might as well do the right thing, knowing that nothing will ever be good enough for them.

Everybody wants to end this war, especially John McCain. Despite what the self-proclaimed enemies of America say, John McCain's character is an example of our American values at their best. (Watch for jeers and insults to come in response.) It's no wonder that our enemies are afraid of it, just as they admit they are. We The People have an important choice to make, and I agree with you completely that the choice is between charisma and character. I also completely agree with you that John McCain has the better character. By a million miles, IMO. I also agree with you that an Obama presidency would give our enemies the upper hand ... which is why they prefer Obama. This world will not be more safe if we simply crawl away in defeat, thinking that nobody in a cave can harm us. That's foolish.

I can hardly believe the gutters that the enemies of character will wallow in. I was boorishly taunted in public just yesterday by an Obama supporter. I've experienced a lot of that, usually from an angry mob of Obama's supporters. I was even accosted by an Obama supporter while at the RNC convention. The level of disrespect and rudeness and aggressiveness toward those who disagree with the left wing is astounding to me.

Maya Angelou said, "When you knew better, you did better."

That's what I believe we always have an opportunity to do. Obviously, a lot of people are waiting for us to fail. Unfortunately, there is no doubt that we will be less safe as a nation if Obama wins the election.

God bless America.

Re: Hearing From bin Laden? Nah

By johnhatch, October 10, 2008 at 12:18

While Bin Laden is no friend of the US (neither am I) he was a CIA asset when they were fighting a proxy war with the USSR in Afghanistan. There is evidence that there were contacts as late as 2000.

Immediately after 9/11, Bin Laden denied any involvement. Indeed most experts agree that he could not have orchestrated such an attack from his 'cave'. The FBI admits it has zero evidence against him (regarding 9/11), and there are 'Bin Laden' tapes which are patently and even comically fake.

I don't know if Bin Laden is happy about the financial meltdown, but I am (even though we all get hurt). I'm glad that the Bush Administration is further exposed as the ethically bankrupt, murderous entity that it is. Bin Laden didn't do 9/11, Cheney and the PNAC people did. Examine the free-fall of the twin towers and Building 7. Controlled demolition.

Finally, whoever wins the (s)election is of little consequence (if an election even happens). The corporate agenda will be served as usual. But to ascribe 'character' to Mr. McCain is a mistake. Just as dropping bombs on civilians from 30,000 feet doesn't make one a war hero, being an underachieving misogynist with a vile temper does not represent character, but a lack of it. God help America.

Re: Hearing From bin Laden? Nah

By W Randolph, October 16, 2008 at 17:42

Mr Hatch,

We agree on many things and disagree on many things.

Bin Laden had no contacts with the CIA during the Russian Afghanistan war, but he was on the same side with the Afghan Mudjahadeen fighters as was the CIA. In 1991 Bin Laden "lost it" when the Saudi royal family allowed the U.S. to defend the kingdom and Mecca. The logic of his continuing an affiliation with the CIA (that he never had in the first place) 9 years after he became a man without a country is laughable.

We agree that Bin Laden denied involvement in 9/11 immediately after the attack. Yet, in his "Towers of Lebanon" video tape on October 29, 2004 he claims direct responsibility for 9/11.

Indeed "most experts" do not agree with your hypothesis that 9/11 could not have been executed by Bin Laden.

I do not understand how you could say the FBI says that they have no evidence against Al Queda. Facts are stubborn things. I suggest you read The Looming Tower - Al Queda and the road to 9/11 by Lawrence Wright for further information on what the FBI knows.

While I would not characterize the Bush administration in the terms you've chosen, I assume we are in agreement that the sooner its neo-conservative chicken hawks are gone - the better. Whether the Bush administration was the worst in my nation's history - time and historians will decide.

I doubt that the hundreds if not thousands of people that actually saw the planes fly into the twin towers on 9/11 view their destruction as a "controlled demolition". You may want to rethink that one. The collapse from the weight above the floors where the planes impacted makes perfect sense to me.

We agree that the corporate interests will be upheld regardless of the victor of the election. We can both rant about that one. However, I differ in believing that there will be little consequence.

A4 Skyhawk bombing runs on Hanoi during the Vietnam war were not at 30,000 feet and as a retired veteran, who defended your right to express your opinion - even up there in Canada - I have a different understanding of character.

Finally, both agree in your behest that God help America.

Thank you for your comment

Re: Hearing From bin Laden? Nah

By SmartCookie, October 12, 2008 at 07:11

John Hatch,

I continue to be blessed to share the planet with you. I have never been to your country of Canada, but I hope to visit one day. I'm sure it's silly of me to hope that we might share conversation over a cup of coffee one day, but if we could I imagine that we would have much to talk about by just sharing what we have in common as human beings enjoying life. Our differences are much less important to me than our similarities.

I hope you have a wonderful day full of all the things you love in life.

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